Life of Significance - Marley Dias

This transcript has been slightly edited for clarity.

Sanyin Siang [00:00:08] Welcome to the Duke University Life of Significance series, where it’s our mission to help you live a life of significance. I lead the Coach K Center on Leadership and Ethics at Duke University’s Fuqua School of business, where I help individuals and teams discover and apply their superpowers. I’m also ranked by Thinker’s 50 as the world’s number one leadership coach.

For this episode, our cohost is Pau Gasol, a distinguished fellow at our leadership center. Pau is a six-time NBA All-Star and a two-time NBA champion. He’s also an Olympian. Pau strives to live a life of significance—whether it’s helping to eliminate childhood obesity through the Gasol Foundation, or helping children thrive as a UNICEF ambassador. He is always using his platform to make a positive difference in the world.

Our guest today is Marley Dias. When Marley was 10, she founded the One Thousand Black Girl Books. It's an entire movement in response to seeing a lack of black female protagonists in books. Her goal was to collect and donate one thousand books in which black girls are the main characters. And to date, Marley has collected over 12,000 books for her campaign. She has also released a book called Marley Dias Gets It Done and So Can You. Marley has inspired so many around the world, including me, and we feel so lucky to have her share her story with us today. So, Pau, we'll toss it to you for the first question. 

Pau Gasol [00:01:54] Thank you Sanyin for the opportunity. Marley, what does it mean to you to live a life of significance? 

Marley Dias [00:02:07] I’m only 16, so that gives some perspective. I’ve done so many things and accomplished so much already. I think that, because my audience is mainly kids my age and kids younger than me, I try to encourage the idea that we don’t have to wait until we grow up to care about others, to want to change the world, to want to be an astronaut or model or athlete or activist—that all these things are achievable in a small or large way, whether you’re younger or older.

So, when it comes to living a life of significance, you can start at any point in your life. You don’t have to wait until you graduate college or until you’ve met a certain milestone or met a certain person. You can help others, be kind, be compassionate, and do things that make the world a better place right now.

Sanyin Siang [00:03:01] Who are some of your role models? Who in your life is leading and living a life of significance? 

Marley Dias [00:03:09] Well, I would obviously have to say my mom. She’s helped me so much with everything I do. She actually started the conversation that led to me starting One Thousand Black Girl Books-- she challenged me to do something about my personal frustration. When I complained that I didn’t see myself in books, she asked me what I was going to do about it. And then she encouraged me to take that next step—to think about how I could help others, rather than just go into the bookstore and buy books for myself. She helped me to think about how I could make an impact on my friends, my peers, my teachers, my school, and the world. She encouraged me to think critically about the world and to use reading as a way to have the words to talk about my feelings, my experiences. 

I definitely look up to my mom, but she learned a lot of these values from her grandmother, so I look up to her as well. Although I never got to meet her, I think that she taught my mother to care about community, to want to build community—and that’s really where the One Thousand Black Girl Books idea came from. It’s the idea that all communities and the stories of those communities should be valued equally and should be told equally.

Sanyin Siang [00:06:12] Marley, that reminds me of [the Darius Simpson poem] “We Are Our Ancestors’ Wildest Dreams.” We have a responsibility to them—those who paved the way for us—and to the next generation—to pave the way for others.

And I love that your story about your mom shows us that living a life of significance can mean caring for others. Your mom gave you a sense of agency; a life of significance is independent of age. You start today.

But let’s take you back to when you were 10. You were frustrated and your mom tossed you a challenge. I’m sure that could have been overwhelming or daunting to move forward. What gave you courage?

Marley Dias [00:07:01] My mom gave me courage. 

And, you know, the title “activist” has been applied to me as my work has become globally recognized. But when I started One Thousand Black Girl Books, I didn’t know I was an activist. I didn’t know that I was a literary advocate. I didn’t know I was an agent for change. I was working to solve a problem. And, as I talk to younger kids, I want them to know that it’s not just about having a fancy title, but that what I do is really about solving problems.

So, my mom had encouraged me to solve problems on small scales, whether that was wanting something different for lunch, or wanting to wear a different outfit to school. She encouraged me to solve those problems one at a time. Then, when you get to a big problem—like not feeling that your voice is being heard in school, or not feeling like your story is being told—I didn’t feel like it was an insurmountable problem because I’d been solving little problems left and right. My mom had been helping me to build that confidence and courage.

Now, I encourage parents to help their kids be problem solvers when they have a complaint, rather than trying to simply get rid of the issue.

Sanyin Siang [00:08:17] And so for listeners out there: take note. It starts from the small moments. Living a life of significance has to do with problem solving and having a sense of agency so that you're ready in the big moments when the world calls on you.

Pau Gasol [00:08:38] Marley, what was that process like for you? You identified something upsetting and you wanted to change it. And then your mom encouraged you, gave you that courage. How did things proceed?

Marley Dias [00:09:17] The first thing we did was make sure this issue wasn’t just happening to me. We wanted to make sure that the lack of diversity wasn’t just at my school. So, she encouraged me to think critically about my surroundings. We looked up videos to learn about diversity in kids’ books. We noticed what books were on my bookshelf. I paid more attention to the books at school. I started wondering if others could relate to this issue. 

Then I was able to learn more about the amount and kinds of books with black main characters that were published. Figuring out and understanding more about where my story fit into the world was important, and I wanted to bring those stories into my school. Then, the question was: How does this passion for reading and this frustration connect to and help others? 

I decided that I was going to donate books to a school in Jamaica that my mom had attended. I wanted to donate books to my school, of course, but I thought that I could help black girls in a majority black space who hadn’t had books that showcased their experiences before. We didn’t just want to fix my issue; I wanted it to be about community. It was clear to me that this was a far-reaching problem that exists worldwide.

Sanyin Siang [00:12:50] Your focus on community is wonderful. During this whole process, what did you discover about yourself that surprised you? What superpowers? How have you been transformed?

Marley Dias [00:13:08] Throughout the process of One Thousand Black Girl Books—which isn’t over—I’ve aged a bit, both mentally and emotionally. As my campaign picked up steam and after I’d come out with a book, I wanted to be very private in my own school about what I did. I didn’t want to talk to my teachers about it. I didn’t want to share everything with my friends. I didn’t want to stand out in school because as soon as I left school, I stood out everywhere else. I’d go places and I’d have to dress up and talk to the world about my personal experiences. So, I tried to separate my experience in school from my experience at work or outside of school—especially because I had developed a larger social media following.

And, my campaign also started because of a problem I’d had in school, and it was because of my teacher. So, I didn’t want him to know he was the reason why I had done all of these things. I didn’t want him to feel bad. I kept a lot of my ideas to myself.

I think it was because I always felt different in that respect--that I wanted to do things that kids weren’t supposed to do, whether that was wanting to travel a lot, not being in school every day. I wanted to go out and have new experiences outside of school. I wanted to wear my hair in an afro. I wanted to do things that other girls and kids my age weren’t necessarily interested in or didn’t have the same access to. 

So, when I got to middle school, I felt like maybe One Thousand Black Girl Books is just something I do for other people. Maybe it’s not something that I can prioritize for myself or really take the time to invest in in school, because it was just tiring. I was spending a lot of time out of school. I'm always working to either talk about myself or donate books. So, I think over the course of the campaign, I felt a lot of internal shame about being different from others, and missing school, and missing my eighth-grade dance or whatever. And I don't care about those things, but it was a long process, especially through sixth grade to ninth grade. I felt a lot of internal struggle. 

But now I feel so much better, especially because we're online. I get to do things like this interview, and I don't have to worry about missing my friends or missing out on something. And I've grown from that. But it was a struggle for a while. 

Sanyin Siang [00:15:27] There's definitely a sacrificial element when we want to make a big difference in the world. Pau and I talk about this a lot. It’s a tension between what we’re called to do, our relationships, our families, our friends. When you were going through those struggles in the sixth to ninth grade, pre-pandemic, what were some of the things that helped you through? How did you maintain that balance? 

Marley Dias [00:16:00] I don't think I was maintaining a balance; I'll be honest. But one way that I was able to recover was being more open with my friends and talking to them about what I was going through. As we grew more mature, and as racial politics and activism had become more prevalent on social media—and as everyone was able to form their own opinions apart from their parents—they could see what I do and relate to it more. I felt like it became a safer space over time. When I was in sixth or seventh grade, a lot of other kids didn’t know who this news reporter was, or they didn’t know what that article was. They didn’t know what list or award I had received and its significance. So, it all often felt very out of context for others and me as well. I didn’t know it was so cool to do all these things and travel all these places—not every seventh grader gets to do that. As I got older, I think people started to understand that and see the significance of these acts because they were maturing in the same way. All the things I was doing—seeing the people I’ve been able to meet, the interviews, the things I’ve written, the book I published, the show I created—started to make sense to people. 

But I wasn't going to let them, relating to or not, affect my goal. I was never going to let them stop me from doing One Thousand Black Girl Books. But, especially early on, the opinions of others did stop and limit my comfort level and my desire to share my achievements. I didn’t think they understood it. I spent so much time explaining why it mattered to people on the news or on television or on social media that I didn’t want to do that in school. I was tired of explaining why my story mattered, why activism mattered, and doing that at school was too laborious for me.

Pau Gasol [00:17:48] I think that’s really important for us to hear. Even though we have courage and are staying true to ourselves and our dreams and our vision—those very things can make us feel awkward and like we don’t fit in. So, for you to stay true and not allow distractions from peers to deter you from your dream and your beliefs—it’s really important.

Sanyin Siang [00:22:03] Marley, you've inspired and helped so many people, and I think one of the ways you’ve done that, especially with your book, is by giving them a sense of agency. You’ve shown, especially teenagers, that you don’t have to wait until you’re older. Who are some of the people you’ve met in your travels whose stories have felt compelling to you?

Marley Dias [00:22:35] One of the most spectacular and important moments of my career has been working with people from the United State of Women. Under the Obama Administration, I got to work with people like Valerie Jarrett and Tina Chen, who were aides to President Obama and Michelle Obama. There were amazing women there who supported me. And I’m so happy now to see that they’re working on other campaigns with people that are running for public office. They’re even running themselves. It was significant for me that they were important people—they worked for the President of the United States—and they wanted to bring me to conferences to have on panels. I spent a lot of time being the youngest, but they were always the people who took a chance on me and were willing to let me be the 12-year-old on a panel of 30- and 40-year-olds—and they saw that as a great and exciting thing. They didn’t think I was too little or too young. They saw me as enough. And this opened doors for me; I ended up getting to interview former Secretary of State and First Lady Hillary Clinton. Those opportunities are due, in part, to all of these women who said, “Kids can be here. I know this is the most professional office in the world, but kids can be equal professionals.” They meant so much to me because it catapulted me into different spaces and opportunities that wouldn’t have existed without them.

Sanyin Siang [00:25:56] So Marley, you're only 16. What's next? 

Marley Dias [00:26:02] I’m not sure what’s next. It’s an interesting question to ask now because, when I started, there wasn’t any thought about college or anything like that. But now I have a year until I go to college. It’s crazy to think about the places I’ll be in the next 18 months and the new experiences that will happen. But One Thousand Black Girl Books doesn’t end here.

I’m sure a lot of people might be surprised by that because they think my life is going to change—and it will. But the whole campaign has been about change. It’s anticipated that things will change, and that’s what we’re hoping to embrace.

We’ve now collected over 12,000 books. We’re heading toward 13,000. So, we’ll continue to donate books. I’ll also be working on a show I did with Netflix called Bookmarks, which is a read-aloud series with celebrities like Lupita Nyong’o, Jaqueline Woodson, Marsai Martin—really amazing black actors reading stories about black children and their experiences.

So, I’m going to focus on developing creative projects and initiatives a bit farther away from just donating books. My perspective is not the perspective of 10-year-olds anymore. They see the world differently. They’re experiencing new movements, new campaigns. And it’s weird to think that I might not understand what a 10-year-old is going through now, but I don’t. I’m moving on toward young adulthood. So, continuing to be a support system and being active with younger people who have been inspired by me is important.

My mom also has a book coming out in the future about parenting called Parent Like It Matters. It will be about social activism and provide tools and resources. I’m excited to see what will come out of her talking about my experience and her own experience. I’m hopeful that it will create some new girls that can change the world and start some really awesome campaigns of their own.